Starting problem

Hey everybody-new to the site. An awesome one it is.
My starter keeps eating off the teeth on my ring gear every 3-4 months. I've replaced several of them(both) with what the parts store considers matching. The flywheel is not warped. I've tried installing the starter with the washers on the bolts and without. The problem is that the starter doesn't seem to be seating all of the way on the ring gear. It chews up the front half when sliding in on the flywheel. Is this a common fix. Could my crank be moving? I greatly appreciate any help. Thanks

Sounds like you have the wrong starter to me.
Is this on your 390?
Kurt

yes. Do you know if there are many starters for this. Unfortunately I don't have the numbers off the block at the time for any referencing etc. I'll get that soon. Do 390's take different starters depending on the year manu'd?

I believe there is a couple differant starter for the 390's.
I know there are three differant ones for the Clevelands,
because I had the same problem, and the wrong starter.
Kurt

Is that thin metal block plate in place between the engine and bellhousing? If it isn't there you will never get the starter to engage properly. Sometimes people forget to reinstall it when they pull the transmission.

Don

Sorry had to grab lunch-wife is pregnant. Can't make her mad lol. Thanks alot. I'll double check what ya mentioned and get back to ya. The rig is at my friends house. Pretty sure the plate is intact. I've had a few starters that yes were not shimmed properly. Also since the headers are in the way : ( I'll take off the dust cover and maybe see if I can pull the gear out to see if it's even sliding out far enough. Just a little frustrated with it.

One more quick question if all else seems to be fine. Is it possible to have a bad main bearing etc for the crank to move back and forth. I didn't recall seeing any signs by the balancer when checking area. Should I try and pry a little to see. I don't know of everything the rebuild consisted of just before I got the truck locally, but I do know he put down 3700. Now he's overseas and I can't get any info. Hopefully the shop did what they said they did lol. Maybe my time is going to be tied up here shortly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Louey

With the so called rebuilt starters from the parts store, you have to check the starter end play. If it clunks back and forth, they did not shim the end play correctly. So when you engage the starter, the armature moves back, and you get a weak engagement. If the metal plate is left off, all that will do is allow the starter to engage deeper into the ring gear teeth. You need to also check with the cover off, and see what the total engagement is. Hope this helps a little.

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The real purpose of the metal plate on Fords is to index the starter the correct distance from the crank centerline. If it is not in place, or is damaged so that the starter won't fit in straight and snug, the starter will not be located properly. Some folks call these plates a shim or torque plate also. But they actually were meant to locate the starter. If you inspect closely the original bolts Ford used to bolt in the starter, you'll notice they don't "fill" the hole like a "normal" bolt. These bolts were meant to allow some alignment space under the washer. And yes. always check the length of the starter drive to ensure complete engagment. Hope it helps.

Thanks for the info. That helps!

Understand completely. Should get at it this weekend. Yes it's acting like it's not going in far enough. I'll tinker with it. Again thanks all!!

You don't normally use shims on Ford starters

Thats what I was thinking to Shoprat.
Thats why I had to ask if this was on his 390.
Now I am waiting to see what the out come is.
Please let us know what you find, 390!!!

Kurt

how many teeth on the flywheel???

Hotrodstude; That should not have anything to do with the starter gear only contacting
half the way on to the flywheel.
Kurt

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Louey

This was intended to clarify the engagement depth on the ring gear teeth. If the metal plate is left off, all that will do is allow the starter to engage deeper into the ring gear teeth.
How ever, the starter can be mounted without the plate, as long as you check the engagement clearance. Not the ideal way to do it though.

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Completely WRONG! Leave that plate out and it's a crap shoot as to having the starter the correct distance from the center of the crankshaft! Also if it's bent / twisted / damaged it may prevent proper placement of the starter.

Agree with you on checking the starter drive engagment arm for damage / wear.

I know your exactly right Louey.
Some of these rebuilders just throw them to gether with out ever measureing anything, or checking to even see if they are kicking out right. I know I have got them where the would not spin or even kick out like they were supposed too. I have also got the the wrong starters thats why I like to buy them and take the core back later so I can look them over real good to make sure that they are a perfect match.
Kurt

A picture sure would help. My starter had shims supplyed with it when I purchased it and Different hole patterns on the mounting plate. This allowed to adjust the mesh and travel of the starter gear.

But it's a chebbie ???:D :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Louey

Your going a little to deep on this aren't you?

Your throwing a lot of if's in there. Like what if the sun is shining, or maybe if it was raining, or freezing out, would this make a difference.
The main point is, check the clearance between the flywheel and starter. How far does the engagement go between the two pieces ? That is what puts it at the right spot on the flywheel, ring gear teeth.

if it's bent / twisted / damaged it may prevent proper placement of the starter.

If that's the case, you haven't done the checks properly, and a new one is required. I've had them chew the gear teeth up, when everything was supposed to be right. The starter engagement depth was usually the problem. That's why the get half the teeth chewed off, in 4 places.

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I don't think so. I wasn't the one saying the plate don't matter. It absolutely does! All I was trying to say was check the plate for damage as it sets the distance away from the crank. And I also agreed with you on verifying starter drive tooth engagement. That was it! I also agree that he should verify the tooth count on the flywheel and make sure he's gotten the correct starter for that flywheel he's using.

And I never ever mentioned the weather! :LOL::3dSMILE::D

what year is the 390??? dose the bellhousing have a large hump cast into the passangers side of the bellhousing??? where the starter bolts to ??? some of the early fe had y-block type starters on them which engaged the flywheel from the back side.65 and up starters are different.when you replaced the ring gear was it installed from the clutch side or the engine side of the flywheel????

Hey again. Hope you all had a great 4th. What I found was that while my truck was being stored(while I was on deployment) someone was tinkering with it for me. They claimed to put in a new throwout bearing(centerforce) which was still in the box(found it) and the engine plate is not installed. I looked at the starter to find it binding(frozen) against the flywheel gear. The edge of the tooth on the starter is touching the tooth on the flywheel. Bum deal! I do know the block is a 66. Could there be a different starter for that year compared to the 76 I thought it was? Also is there a such thing as different tooth patters-meaning a finer area for how they are cut. Like having two 168? tooth flywheels,but one is cut different? Thanks for any help.

I don't recall the exact number on the flywheel-believe it's 164-or 168. The starter was matched to the flywheel teeth wise. Unfortunately not sure about whether the ring gear was pressed on from the back or front. It appears to be in the exact center of the flywheel. Apparently the starter seems to be sliding out far enough seeing how its frozen against the tooth on the flywheel. I'll get to tearing it apart in a month or so-have a ton of stuff to do : ( I will get an engine plate and really try to reference the starter/flywheel. See about getting it from ford or something. I do not want to be doing this again soon lol. Thanks again for all the info. I appreciate it and will keep ya posted.

Yes there are differant flywhell with differant amonts of teeth.
Call Summit's tech Department they could tell you.

Tech line for summit is 1-330-630-0240